Second Life Blogger Eve Kazan returned from a holiday abroad in Spain to find WordPress had taken down three snapshots she published on her blog post. Prometheus Creations Studio, owned by Second Life resident Irine Abbot, filed the DMCA with WordPress’s owner, Automattic Inc on May 22nd.
Creator Irine Abott of Prometheus Creations first communicated with Ms Kazan on May 14th about the alleged infringement of the snapshots she published on April 3, 2014, via Facebook:
I was happy to see the robotic arms used in creative ways. However I was not happy to see my products used in commercially advertising a competitor, presenting the impression that they are from Neurolabs. I would appreciate it if you could please either remove the photos or add the product listing of the arms in the post as you did with all the other products in that photo.
Ms Kazan who publishes a blog called Mademoisl-eve says she “refused to remove them, because i have not seen what I was doing wrong. And i’ve refused to describe it because i have thought and i always think that this content is not an original product” on her Flickr.
When asked to comment on Kazan’s allegations that her products were not original, Irine Abott said, “I would like to have those allegations written down so I can take them to court. This is outrageously wrong” and that “if Neurolabs considers any of our products copied from them, I would like to see them file a DMCA against us with all documentary evidence.”
In an addendum to her original blog post, Ms Kazan further asserts that she is solely responsible for the direction, shooting, modeling and post production of the photo captures she posted. She claims she is caught in the middle between an ongoing dispute between Prometheus and another creator named Neurolabs, the latter with whom Ms Kazan has a ‘goods-in-kind’ relationship. Irine Abbot maintained that the action was competitively motivated and that “Neurolabs is clearly listed as a sponsor in (Kazan’s) blog.”
Ms Kazan received the DMCA takedown notice on the 28th of May claiming that she “failed to obtain permission to use the Prometheus Creations and copyright… in snapshots without… consent.”
Prometheus further alleges that Ms Kazan’s blog post is “a commercial and sponsored action with clear motive of advertising commercial products”.
“The most disturbing thing” said Abott “was that our product was some of the most prominent pieces of the artwork and they had a competitive brand plastered all over them.”
Abott also said that they would “pursue legal action for the removal of this content” against Ms Kazan within 5 days of the DMCA notice. The owner also sent a copy of her notice to Linden Lab’s legal department, citing their policy on Snapshots and Machinima.
Kazan says she “will not re-upload the photos”, out of fear that her “blog will be removed permanently by WordPress. I will not either do a DMCA counter-notice, all this takes time”.
Both Prometheus and Kazan agree that she purchased the objects used in the allegedly copyright infringing snapshots.
Update June 4, 2015: Prometheus’ owner used SL blogger Kazan’s snapshots in advertising – without permission – before filing DMCA
Canary Beck 
Reblogged this on SL Blogger Support.
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It sounds a lot like Neurolabs is trying to eliminate competitors via covert means
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This is all paranoia, bloggers mixed and matched items with the same vibe all the time, all the more when we talk about sci-fi there are only a few brands out there that could fit such a photoshoot. Even if Neurolab sponsors someone it certainly has no say as to how the blogger is going to shoot its items or others, that’s ludicrous. People need to stop trying to create dramas where there’s none.
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Reblogged this on A Kat and A Mouse and commented:
Just a reminder that as a blogger, you need to pay attention to TOS and copyright regs. 🙂
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Reblogged this on {K}iss {K}iss and commented:
This is one to watch!
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This is one again the proof that DMCA is an easily abusable procedure ! Irine Abbot is abusing this procedure to bully Miss Kazan. I will not buy anything from him or it’s crappy shop. He sells his wares, but you do not have to snapshot it when you have buyed it ? I knows very well that Miss Kazan will not pursue him because of the costs, but it’s DMCA procedure abuse.
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There is absolutely no cost involved in the DMCA procedure. Even individuals can file DMCA abuse claims. However a DMCA application requires that you prove ownership of the Intellectual Property. If Eve Kazan wishes to file counter-action that would require that they prove that the product is not my own creation and that my original claim is false and invalid. That would put me in very serious trouble if it was the case. I welcome any such action from their part. However besides some cries to various websites there was no reply to our DMCA claims and letters. Their blog registered e-mail is also non-existent so it made matters even more frustrating for our paralegals.
I did not attempt to bully Eve Kazan. However I do not wish to be associated with the Neurolab brand in any way, and it would take a blind (literally or figuratively) person not to see what is happening here. Thankfully the TOS of Second Life gives me the right and the freedom of association (which I have established already by constitutional laws) to associate or not with any other individual and their brand. I gave Eve Kazan the choice of either removing the photos or describing the product. She was very fast to dismiss my request. And this came to my attention a whole year after the original blog post was created. No matter how you put it, they broke the rules and when someone called them out on it, they disappeared only to appear later crying for attention.
There are multiple photography blogs showcasing our products, together with some Neurolabs products and various others, however they had the decency to give credit were credit was due. I even advertise them in our website. One of them is this: https://fashionnectar.wordpress.com/2014/02/24/sl-destinations-moon-base/
If I wanted I could have pursued further legal action that would indeed cost them a great deal, claiming financial damages. However I have not done such a thing, giving them the benefit of the doubt as to their original intent.
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I can’t help wondering what Gearbox would have to say about you referring, by name, to their game franchise and one of their characters in one of your for-sale creations. If you’re not skirting the border of copyright infringement yourself with that, you’re at least attempting to ride on the coattails of their success with said franchise, otherwise you would not have named the product ‘Zero’, nor referred to Borderlands in the item description. So until you provide proof of permission from Gearbox to use their intellectual property to sell something in a virtual world, I’m not inclined to either take you seriously, or buy anything you make.
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If Gearbox files a DMCA complaint against me, providing proof that they have indeed registered the word Zero, and trade dress of the Zero Style Helmet, I will be removing it in no time. I have had DMCA notices from Valve in the past about specific products, I sat down and discussed with their paralegals and reached some common grounds. Can you also wonder about certain creators in this story claiming stolen work and are riding on the Tron, Audi and Nike brands for their whole product lines?
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Asking for credit was fair enough (yes, I would have thought those robotic arms were from Neurolabs too). I would believe bloggers doing advertisement posts should be that diligent and “equitable”. Has a DMCA been filed with the flickr service too? Out of curiosity: Were there really any financial damages because of that post and its credit omission?
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I was informed of the posts existence by a customer that bought the robotic arms from me and they IMed me telling me how disappointed they are for purchasing products that were “stolen” from another creator, after seeing this.
The post was up for over a year, before coming to my attention. How many people saw that and got that same impression about the product in my store? It was one of my best selling products.
There is a very strong case of defamation and a financial claim can be done.
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Let play devils advocate here, Lets sat you h ave a Screw and bolt which is part of a larger picture.How about a white pad on which the screw and bolt sit. Its part of a picture taken no claim is made that you can buy Screws or bolt or white pads that are a part of a picture. Would you ask them to take down a picture based on a bolt and screw and white pad, because clearly you made that Bolt and screw and white pad or, Are they part of a larger ascetic which is not really commercial in nature but ascetically pleasing in the larger sense.Is art subject to analysis of content on such minute scale when something is merely a part of a picture? You term it illegal?
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I will copy my initial message to Eve Kazan as per the article “I was happy to see the robotic arms used in creative ways. However I was not happy to see my products used in commercially advertising a competitor, presenting the impression that they are from Neurolabs. I would appreciate it if you could please either remove the photos or add the product listing of the arms in the post as you did with all the other products in that photo.”
The robotic arms in this picture are not of a minute scale. They are as much part of the visual real estate as the cyborg female (in fact they take up more pixel real estate than her). However you see the Neurolab brand over them, and description of every other item in the post(http://mademoisl-eve.com/2014/04/03/te-k-v6/), besides those robotic arms.
There are many other artistic creations using my products and I have never had problems with them, since their creators didn’t maliciously manipulate the situation like in this case. If the blog owner considered the products illegal in nature (not original) or copies of Neurolabs (something which was omitted from the article I believe, and not intentionally) why did she use them in the first place? The Second Life grid is full of other products to cover up for this (or is it…?)
Also let me ask you this. If you took a picture of a brand new Mercedes Benz or BMW, and you had a Toyota cupholder somewhere in the background, and you pasted a huge TOYOTA brand over the Mercedes or BMW, put the price of the cupholder underneath and the Toyota dealership contact details and then served this to the public as “artistic” creation, do you think Mercedes would be wrong to sue you?
TL;DR if it was a tiny screw and it wasn’t a main piece of the artwork, no I wouldn’t consider it illegal or a problem. But this was maliciously intended to hide the origins of the content and misguide viewers to another creator.
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That’s a very bold move, given Irines storefront consisting primarily of incredibly similar meshes from video game meshes, such as Mr Freezes Armour from Batman- Arkham City, the laptop also from Arkham City, the Zorn Mech from Remember Me, the ORO HOG 9mm Pistol from Turok… the list goes on.
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and if I ever get into an IP conflict with any of the copyright holders of the above, I’ll make sure to let you know how it went 🙂 If you have an IP claim of your own, message me privately and I will send you our paralegal team contact details, but this is totally beyond the scope of this discussion. However, yes it is a bold move, you are absolutely right!
Would you consider doing nothing better? Or should I go around frightening people in IMs with racial slurs, intimidating messages, creating alts and sending them to their stores to drive people away by spewing poisonous IMs at visitors, and various other covert practices as opposed to “bold” moves? But of course, everything to keep appearances 🙂
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Reblogged this on ZZ Bottom misadventures in Virtual Worlds!.
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Dmca is a insane law that big corporations and lots of lawyers love to use and its abuse and use is reaching levels that will make it useless.
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I see neurolabs on the picture, however i do not see neuro labs on the robotic arms themselves as they ares imply a part of the picture I dont think the intent was to Send people to Neurolabs to buy Robotic arms. Or that the content was MIs labeled. In actuality they could have taken a picture at my Uncles Pencil factory which uses those type items in their Assembly line.I do not find the argument persuasive, that and actual violation has occurred.
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I don’t know how I feel about this whole mess, but this is what I think as a long time blogger in SL in the past:
1. Why didn’t the blogger credit the items to begin with?
2. And to add to this idea, why not just give credit and move on. It’s this person’s creations (regardless of the here for to accusations above).
Now, if I would have received this request from the creator would I have thought he or she was a total asshat? ABSOLUTELY! Now with that being said, I still would have credited the items, let the issue die right there and never EVER blogged or purchased any of this person’s items again.
I get your point Prometheus in wanting your items credited – but a DMCA??? Really man, chill out and don’t take your anger out on a blogger. A polite, “would you please credit my items now and in the future” would have gotten your message across just as well. Of course, like most Second Lifers, you will probably dig your heals in the sand and continue to justify your overreaction.
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He tried that and got nothing but stonewalled
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My very polite message was “I was happy to see the robotic arms used in creative ways. However I was not happy to see my products used in commercially advertising a competitor, presenting the impression that they are from Neurolabs. I would appreciate it if you could please either remove the photos or add the product listing of the arms in the post as you did with all the other products in that photo.”
That was before any notice was filed.
Did it get my message across?
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Look I totally get why you are annoyed with her not crediting your work. I had someone use my pictures on another blog about role play and I was totally annoyed. But I asked that they credit my image and she obliged so it was a bit different: They were my photos.
I guess when it comes down to it, you got to learn to pick your battles in SL. Now you are coming across in a somewhat bad light that might actually deter people from using your products. She did not “steal” from you. Now conversely I totally do not get why Eve Kazan refused to credit you – seems unprofessional to me. But then again, this is Second Life
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What someone considers bad light someone else might see differently. There are always two sides to one coin. I really do believe that there are still people with critical thought out there.
She used my products in a way that violated the TOS and my copyright and that gave me the ability to get the images removed. I’d rather be shown in a “bad light” to some and not just “suck it”, cower and carry on. I will use any tool in my disposal to protect my interests and not cower just to keep appearances. It is a matter of principle. I was very polite and had every good intention. I would even advertise that blog wherever I could if I was properly credited just like every other product was in that picture. Instead I was insulted (“hey these are not original and are stolen”), and dismissed. If this was in Real Life, reaction would have been the same.
We are still people behind the keyboards and we are obliged to act as such towards each other, with mutual respect and understanding. If someone thinks that the anonymity and the [insert being of choice] avatar cancels that obligation, they should really avoid any kind of MMO virtual community and interaction and seek medical help for their own good. If Eve Kazan was an underage kid, I’d try to reach his/her parents and tell them to look after the mess she is getting into. But I saw that she is an accomplished artist, an adult with full responsibility for their actions.
I have no doubt that there was malicious intent from their side and their sponsors. And I am really happy that people can see that for themselves now.
And for what is worth, this was not the first time I started a legal process in SL. Once I was blackmailed by a person requesting Linden payments (and ridiculous amounts at that) to remove a 1 star review and post a good one. I reported this using the Abuse report function to Linden Labs but no action was taken from them for over a month. I finally started a legal process and the other person removed the review, apologized and kept calling our company every day for a month just to make sure we won’t take them to court. Their initial rationing was “I thought you were just an individual and not a company, and I didn’t think you would do anything like that, I’m sorry”.
Should I have proceeded legally and sue his ass with blackmailing, and various other charges, effectively destroying or heavily damaging their lives?
Should I have not done anything and left a bad review up there?
Should I have given in and paid them?
In any of the 3 cases there would be people that would see me in a bad light. As the overly zealous greedy person that sued a poor sod for money, as a person that sells bad products (even if that wasn’t true), as the coward idiot that did nothing and let someone walk over them.
What I’m trying to get at is that people will always see what they want to. Even if you walk on water, there will be people telling you you cannot swim. I just did what I thought was right.
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I would agree with you if she had stated the robotic arms were from neurolab and not from your store;. I am not sure if you really even know any second life bloggers but for the majority of us – this is a hobby. We are not professional advertising agencies or consider this any sort of “commercial endeavor”. And if you expect every single blogger to contact you and obtain your permission in advance to use your work – you will never get blogged. Do you really want to make this the standard when for hobbyists? Really???
As I have said previously, if this would have been my photo I would have listed your store in the credits. But honestly, show me where we have to do this when it comes to Second Life and I will humbly apologize.
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I never told her, “hey why didn’t you contact me earlier to obtain my permission”. I would expect common decency and treating my work equally to the rest of them. However when I contacted her, I received dismissal. I never demanded that bloggers contact me beforehand for artistic creations. None of them put another brand in front of my products and omitted them from the usual product listing following the picture either. What is that hard to comprehend here?
You might not be a professional or consider this a “commercial endeavour”, other people do however.
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I can’t reply to your reply (LOL) so I am adding this comment here. What I was referring to Prometheus in regards to receiving advance permission to blog is this statement in the post:
“Ms Kazan received the DMCA takedown notice on the 28th of May claiming that she “failed to obtain permission to use the Prometheus Creations and copyright… in snapshots without… consent.””
I have been blogging since 2008 and honestly that photo does not look like an ad. There is a trend of overlaying the featured items over the main picture among bloggers. I am personally not a huge fan of the style plus in this photo whatever method she used to do this overlay doesn’t have any real clear lines delineating it from the main photo. Anywho, I am not here to critique her photo lol.
I am going to leave you with this Prometheus: Pick your battles in Second Life very carefully.
Enjoy the rest of your week and perhaps if I start logging into Sl regularly any time soon, we will run into each other somewhere on the grid.
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I’m a big fan of Eve’s wonderfully creative photos. I considered it a privilege that she took the accompanying photos for a few of my AVENUE articles – with the ‘SL Olympics’ and ‘Some novel ideas’ pics amongst the most organisationally complex SL pictures I’ve ever seen. I used one of them as my blog header for several years and continue to link to her blog now. I think she’s one of the most talented photographers in SL.
But I have to consider how I would feel in Irine’s position. If I saw one of my furniture products in a photograph with another creator’s logo so prominently displayed (in a manner that does suggest to me they were the creator of the featured content) I would definitely be upset. If I then noted that the logo displayed was one of the photographer’s sponsors I would suspect some sort of collusion. And if my polite request for either the removal of the pictures or some sort of clarifying comment was ignored, I would feel angry and helpless. Would I file a DMCA notice? I don’t know. But I would be wishing there was something I could do which would make the photographer attend to my complaint. This would appear to be one way.
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Right. My two cents on all this, and it took me some hours to get my thoughts in the right place, after reading so many opinions and comments on Plurk, Flickr and Facebook over this case.
For starters. I have my thoughts on how the blogger, Eve, handled this initially. Yes, she used robot arms from a creator about which she got doubts and then removed credits, while featuring these arms in a picture displaying the obvious competitor of said items.
No matter if this is ethical or right/wrong and no matter the butt hurt that is clearly present between both creators of these kind of objects (Neurolab and Prometheus), no matter if the creator (Prometheus) is selling rip offs of games outside of SL, my main concern is:
The abuse of DMCA.
In this case, despite all the things that could have done better by the blogger and the creator, DMCA is abused to get pictures offline for the wrong reason.
DMCA is to protect content creators, to protect intellectual property. It is not meant to be used to get pictures/images offline just because: you do not like them.
No stealing happened in this case, no copyright infringement happened either.
Prometheus may not like the image, but….nothing justifies a DMCA. The way it is used in this case smells of bullying and harassment: ‘I don’t like your pic because is portrays my stuff not right, so I will go all the way to get it offline’. meh, much?
If Prometheus is so confident over her/his stuff, all this was not needed over a picture and blogpost posted a YEAR ago.
The precedent, if WP indeed follows and allows the complaint, is scary.
I, for one, to give an example, will not use any stuff by Prometheus in pics anymore, because OMG: I may perhaps use it in a sim, next to a building or stuff made by someone who he/she hates, simply to avoid getting into situations like this.
I am interested in the follow up and how WP handles this, as it goes way deeper than just some SL residents disputing virtual stuffs.
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All the allegations from Eve Kazan that WP would remove the blog completely are false and just there to create impressions. The complaint was over the said images that were removed by WP. End of story. That is all.
Eve Kazan could file a simple counter DMCA with proof that I do not own rights to this product. However any DMCA notice states that
“I state that all above information in this notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that I am acting on the infringement of my exclusive rights.”
and that means that she would be legally responsible for anything that was contained in this notice. They won’t do such thing not because of the cost or time (it took me one week to get things done) but because they are simply in fault.
Now if Kazan keeps doing things like that and receives more DMCA notices, then I suppose that WP will have to remove them completely since WP is a private owned company and when they are hosting unlicensed images then the legal responsibility also falls with them too, and they have to somehow protect themselves.
I would NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEM if Kazan credited the items. I did not attempt to bully anyone. I was pretty clear on my scope from the beginning. Either credit the items like you did with all the rest or remove the images. I’m not selling those as advertising tools for any other creators. I’m selling those as sim decorations, RP props. If someone wants to use my stuff for commercial gains, just ask first. However they choose to show me the finger (metaphorically). When someone shows me the finger, I show them where they can stick it.
If you cannot follow simple social etiquette, credit creators in commercial photography, not only as per the TOS rules but also as common decency dictates, you should NOT BUY my products or create photos with them. For what is worth you should not create any artwork to begin with because you would be lacking understanding of very simple social behavior.
I will state this here one last time for the record. Anyone can do as they like with my products. This is why I almost always provide full perm textures and don’t plaster my brand on every single square inch of them. However if it is a commercial photography case such as the one in question, then you’d better credit them properly or not use them in the first place. Or you can just ask me to avoid any misunderstandings.
Also I wish to see someone doing the exact same thing to you, and then record your reactions just as a proof of your own hypocrisy.
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I do not believe money is the issue in a counter DMCA, but the fact one needs to reveal RL identity and this will be available to the other party will stop a lot of people from countering. You knew, you bluffed, you think you won.
Oh and:
‘I will state this here one last time for the record. Anyone can do as they like with my products. ‘
Really? Clearly anyone can not. As you have shown already.
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Do you mind quoting the rest of the sentence too? Because your comment clearly states that you cannot read complete sentences.
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LOL. Ad hominem. Nice.
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Ad hominem means “to attack a persons character” rather than their argument. I am very clearly attacking your argument here. You cannot read a complete sentence or you are purposely misquoting me. I prefer to think the first since I do not wish to think that you are biased in an open forum discussion.
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This is all very silly.
It’s unfortunate that Irine’s robotic arms are so prominent in Eve’s ad because, yes, it can mislead people to think that those robotic arms are made by Neurolab when they’re not. Then again, the robotic arms were just props in the ad so the ad should just obviously state what it’s advertising to make it less confusing).
But for Irine to file a DMCA seems a bit much. Especially since Irine’s item – the robotic arms – aren’t exactly a new idea/original content created by just Irine (as Eve says “i have thought and i always think that this content is not an original product”) – they’re based on RL robotic arms created by other people and not originally created by Irine.
That and all those game-based products Irine sells – remember that little test you need to take before you can upload meshes to SL? (some info here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Intellectual_Property). And that you really need to get permission first before making and selling anything that resembles or copies someone elses designs. Otherwise, the content creator and SL can get into trouble and this can, in turn, hurt other content creators (even the ones who follow the rules).
Then again, by the way Irine keeps responding to people who mention IP (“if I ever get into an IP conflict with any of the copyright holders…”), Irine obviously doesn’t really care about laws (you’re supposed to get permission first!). And would rather just risk it for as long as possible.
So, this is ridiculous – Irine will continue to create items without permission no matter what anyone says. We can all talk it to death, but Irine doesn’t and will not care, that much is obvious.
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Hmm you speak as if I’m violating copyright in a perfect world. A quick search of Eve Kazans MP store will show you violation of Chanel, Marvel, Metro Goldwyn Mayer, and various other copyrights.
She is selling illegal goods, yet she didn’t credit my robotic arms because she “believes that they are not original”. Hypocrisy much?
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“Le chat se mord la queue…”
This war between you & Neurolab, included the world of bloggers is too much!!! Really making a DMCA against a blogger because she “BOUGHT” your product and didn’t credit it??? And your arguments are:
– She made also copyrights products, so i can make myself…
– But she didn’t credit my items, but credit my rival Neurolab
– So i’m upset and i made a DMCA, like that i will win!
“Children war” and bad reputation… what will be the next?
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I am sorry but with ALL due respect, if the blogger who posted this stood by their commercial advert sorry I mean “art” they would simply file a counter notice (takes less than 5 minutes and to send it). Yet she above is quoted as stating she would NOT be doing that because “that takes time”.
Frankly she is to blame for her own predicament if she can’t even be bothered to assert her rights over her work. I actually don’t agree with the original DMCA, but the blogger has made her own bed by not following one simple step to counter file. Dumb.
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It’s not an ad – it’s a blog post. Do we really want to go down that road of stating all bloggers are creating ads? If so…I am really done with Second Life, LOL.
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I paste from Wikipedia on the article about Advertising on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advertising:
“Advertising (or advertizing)[1][2][3] is a form of marketing communication used to persuade an audience to take or continue some action, usually with respect to a commercial offering, or political or ideological support.
In Latin, ad vertere means “to turn toward”.[4] The purpose of advertising may also be to reassure employees or shareholders that a company is viable or successful. Advertising messages are usually paid for by sponsors and viewed via various old media; including mass media such as newspaper, magazines, television advertisement, radio advertisement, outdoor advertising or direct mail; or new media such as blogs, websites or text messages.
Commercial advertisers often seek to generate increased consumption of their products or services through “branding”, which involves associating a product name or image with certain qualities in the minds of consumers. Non-commercial advertisers who spend money to advertise items other than a consumer product or service include political parties, interest groups, religious organizations and governmental agencies. Nonprofit organizations may rely on free modes of persuasion, such as a public service announcement (PSA).”
Please read the above and notice
“Advertising messages are usually paid for by sponsors…”
“…or new media such as blogs, websites…”
“through “branding”, which involves associating a product name or image with certain qualities in the minds of consumers”
The post by Eve Kazan a) has a sponsor, b) was posted in a media such as a blog, c) was branded by their sponsor Neurolab, associated the brand with an image and passed on a certain quality to the mind of consumers.
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*sigh* Guess I am leaving SL then! 🙂
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wow!! It sounds as though SL might get bogged down by a legal system that has near crippled the first world- at least in North America. Prepare to be digitally sued!! Did this digital copyright not all begin with someone named Asri Falcon in the Life 2.0 documentary? I suppose it’s a natural progression. Very interesting Becky!
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Reblogged this on The Mind & Musings of RicoRacer Flux.
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The words “prometheus creations” are all over the robotic arms! Why did this go any further?
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The picture for the Te.k v6 post depicts a factory, with robotic arms, and steel drums marked Neurolabs. As a viewer the Neurolabs label is more predominantly displayed. However if one considers the setting perhaps not in context. It’s an un-named factory scene with robotic arms, and drums that in theory would contain a substance manufactured by Neurolabs brand. They are either hold a product made by them, hence the labeling, or a byproduct being collected by the Neurolabs factory which alludes to the entire scene being Neurolabs.
I can see why this is could easily appear this way. As to the author/photographers issue of correcting or re-uploading it, if she doesn’t want to – that is her choice as I see it. It does have the feel that Neurolabs, as a brand, is taking more precedent in the scene. It could easily be rectified with adding Prometheus Creations to the base of the arms. Why have one and not the other if the scene is going to be dominated by Neurolabs.
One again needs to look at the context of what Te.k v6 was about. No where in the post written in French, which I am not going to translate to see if the words Neurolabs or Prometheus Creations were translated into local language, is the mention of either brand. BUT listed in the credits, which I do not know if they have been edited since, Neurolabs is credited.
Why credit Neurolabs for the drums, but not Prometheus Creations for the arms. At the very least they should have been credited there since their presence does create so much of the actual scene. As for the DMCA perhaps it was excessive, but I do believe the Prometheus Creations creator did have the right to contact the blogger to make their case as to why they should at least be credited in the post. If no resolution was found, at least make a comment that the arms if anyone were looking for them, created by them etc.
What is the post about? It’s a post promoting content and a look in an artistic way, why not credit EVERYTHING, that went into it. Those arms are very much apart of the scene, as much as what the avatar is wearing. The drums are a small portion, why the prominent advertising of that brand?
Something else to consider, would this have been an issue had neither Neurolabs or Prometheus Creations named appeared anywhere, but credited as items used in the photo, but the name of perhaps a mesh body, or hair or dress designer we’ll call Brand X, been used to suggest the look was created in Brand X design factory, with Brand X on the arms, and drum, or even the walls? Would the DMCA still have happened?
DMCA is best used when your rights are being infringed as to content, such as copied designs, use of photos that you have marked All Rights Reserved, or creative commons photos/content that is not licensed to be used in a certain way.
What do big companies do when their product is used in another companies advertising? I know when I watch Korean dramas if a character wears a shirt with a logo, unless they have paid for advertising, the logo is partially obscured with tape even crudely, if the scene occurs at a restaurant, the logo is partially obscured. We watch tv shows where a can is turned around so you cant see the logo, or cooking shows where the cans/bottles are covered or turned so we cant see the brand used, accept for items that a sponsor makes who is paying to advertise on their show.
It’s happened, the process needs to be resolved now by a court who specializes in this, but at the very least Prometheus Creations should have been cited in the credits.
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It’s so sad there’s so much drama in the SL creator community. DMCA’s against each other to bring each other down instead of working together to give their customers a good experience. It’s so pathetic really. Sometimes it’s like SL is just another high school for rejected art kids who are now just competing to be most popular in SL instead. How does anyone have time to create when there so busy DMCAing each other and living in fear of getting another DMCA.
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Sorry this part is missing from my comment – adding it.
While the other brand should have be credited, in general when you do credit items credit them all. The blogger maintains their items aren’t original and didn’t want to credit them. But they were enough for her to use in her photo. I have problems with that logic. If you feel it’s not original, or infringing enough to not credit, then you shouldn’t have used it.
Prometheus Creations has created infringing content, and says that they’ll deal with that issue when the original creators confront them. Where do you get off with that attitude, but still feel you are owed some protection here? Don’t infringe, point blank. Are you gonna murder too until you are caught, steal cars until you are caught? Or is the threat of the penalty enough to not do it, since you obviously don’t have any ethics.
The DMCA is bullshit, but that is something that the process has to sort out.
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I’m not murdering, or stealing cars. I’m selling fan made art, in a way that is not reducing the original concept creator sales, does not create confusion as to if the product is official or not(unlike the case of Eve Kazan), and in a way that creates thriving interest for the original product (be it Portal, Alien, Star Wars, take your pick) until a new release from the original creators comes. As I said I had DMCA issues with Valve in the past and you still see my products up there. They just requested in the end that I remove the Portal Logo and the Aperture Science logo from the listings after I presented my case.
Have you considered where SL would be without all the Star Wars, Mass Effect or any other sci-fi and other infringed content? Probably not even in existence.
If you do not agree with my argument, go over your inventory with a critical eye and start deleting every infringing content you find there. It will be a very effective inventory sorting method. Start with shoes, those are extremely easy to get away with but still trade dress is a copyright thing. Then go to clothes and underwear, then devices, then every smartphone in Second Life, then go to weapons (those will all go). Afterwards lets go and start deleting every unlicensed texture that you can find on Google Images.
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I don’t agree with your assessment that SL wouldn’t be around without that infringing content.
As for your reference to fashion, its a bit of a different story. See here http://www.ted.com/talks/johanna_blakley_lessons_from_fashion_s_free_culture for information on how fashion can inspire. When an RL designer creates something the look can become a trend which influences others. Yes using very unique things like logos, names of fashion brands, prints they’ve copy written such as the Burberry plaid does happen in SL, doesn’t make it right. I try very hard to shop only purchasing items that do not infringe. I find there is a lot of content out there that is hard to identify if it is or isn’t, or influenced by.
That’s a true grey area, and you do the best you can do, and when its point out then avoid the items/store. Yes people do use google images, it’s wrong. But when its pointed out that you’ve done something wrong you change your behavior.
You may not have been contacted by the people you’ve infringed, but you did it KNOWINGLY. Therefore you should remove it.
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Wow… I hardly think the blogger is the criminal here. I’m just going to leave this here… http://yotoen.blogspot.com/2011/08/second-life-mesh-ip-tutorial-answers.html
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First let me say I am relieved to see people siding on both sides of this argument. There is not a pile on going on here, which is a relief, and I appreciate greatly the (mostly) civil discourse going on in these comments. I don’t doubt that Canary is doing some editing on the back end, as well she should–it’s her blog.
I don’t have a lot more to add except I agree the blogger acted in poor faith and should have credited the arms. The whole point of an SL fashion blog is to show stuff in the best light and tell readers/viewers where to get it–ALL OF IT or you’re not serving your readers well. The blogger’s response that the content was allegedly stolen so she wouldn’t credit it was a piss poor excuse. If she had some concern about the provenance of the creations, why did SHE contribute to the issue of generating income for an allegedly unethical creator by purchasing them? (“Yeah, I gave you money for them but you stole them so I won’t credit them. Nyah!”) What a stupid excuse. If you think someone is using infringing content, don’t BUY IT and then SHOW IT. Yeesh!
That being said, bringing on a DMCA is wielding an awfully big stick for rude and tacky behavior. Was it worth it generating more work for the host company, jamming another questionable complaint in the system, and then bringing all this negativity and drama on oneself for the creator? They would have done themselves a better service by quietly banning the blogger from their store so she can’t buy and use their content anymore and moving on.
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Hi Harper, thanks for adding to the conversation here. I’ve deliberately stepped out of this debate and watched it with great interest from the sidelines. Reason being is that I presented the facts in my story in the most balanced way possible – avoiding any weighing in of my personal opinion on the matter, and I wanted to continue that stance as the story was commented on.
I’ll say however that I’m actually not editing any comments on the backend – which should come as an even greater relief! My personal interest in this is to see how the debate unfolds, without my direct or indirect leading – one way or the other. 🙂
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Well that says even better things. The name calling has been kept to a minimum!
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Ok, first i did want to feed the lions by answering here, but i will do it just once.
When i have bought the robotic arms, i was happy to buy it, i was so happy that i have written a review on the marketplace, i was telling how it was a cool product. The review staid online one year until Irene stole my photos for sell her arms (i didn’t say it before because it’s a story in the story). At this point i made an AR to LL because Irene didn’t tell me she was using my photographs. And then the pics was removed, i have never said to Irene i was unhappy to see my pics on her product. Did she removed herself the pics or LL did, i dont know, but if i’m remembering well, i did my AR before talking to Irene.
So what, she stole my photos since couple of days maybe more without to ask me, and she’s asking me to remove my photographs of my blog ? that was exactly my way to think at this point. And her request was so new to me, i have thought it was just a threat. And after i have answered her to not remove my photos, she has sent me a long legal message, the same i have recieved by wordpress.
There was no more chatting, i was suprised and afraid, but i repeat as it was so surrealistic i didn’t take it seriously. And all my friends around me at this point laugh about it and advised me to not take it seriously. So i have finally thought it was impossible, i have muted Irene, and tried to forget until i’ve recieved the DMCA.
I would like add also, that at the moment of the publishing of the post, i have credited Irene. It’s just after, someone told me that her store was not so clear. In the doubt, i have removed the item from my detail list. And the post was one of my best, the story i made was so funny, so i didn’t think to censor the post just because of that.
Did i put on the photo too much NeuroLab’s logo ? yes, i see it now. I plead guilty after all i read here. But when i have done my pics, i saw on the logo just a designed and a futuristic logo, and absolutely not like a commercial trademark. I did my pics like that, i was not conscious of the possible mistake. And if i had to redo it, i will never do it like that again. Because now my eyes see all differently.
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sorry for the writting errors. I’m not english, google helps me 🙂
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I admit, I used the photos for the MP listing, out of rage mostly after I saw the post, and then I calmed down and realized it was stupid and took them down. They were up for less than an hour actually, not one day, not a couple, and certainly not 13 months like your blog post. Never got an AR notice from LL about them.
As for someone telling you that my store is not clear, and that is why you removed the items, that in my eyes is 100% hypocritical. You are sponsored from and advertising Neurolabs! The store that has COMPLETELY RIPPED OFF DISNEY (Tron), AUDI, even the Matrix! Yourself is selling products with other brands on them (Chanel, Marvel, etc.) How dare you criticize others about the originality of their creations (and in this case a completely original product)?
If you had shown a minimum amount of understanding, and willingness to cooperate with me in solving this, none of this would have happened. Instead you completely dismissed my request, muted me, and literally forced my hand. And afterwards you started crying for attention on Flickr (in which the pictures are also flagged, just a heads up), Facebook, and other media like you were bullied by the devil himself. I logged in my store after my message to you to find a dozen avatars (members of your groups) camping the place and disappearing as soon as I showed up. What were they doing there? I’m certain they were not there for good reason.
As for your statements about “waste of time” for counter DMCA and fear of getting your blog removed, that is all desperate cries for attention. None of them are true. I could never get your blog down unless you repeatedly offended me. As person said earlier, not filling a counter-DMCA was your decision “Frankly she is to blame for her own predicament if she can’t even be bothered to assert her rights over her work. “. Instead you had all the time in the world to cry around about this. Possibly trying to cause as much damage to my store as possible? I can understand it, you are angry, but it is also very sad and completely immature.
I hope that this matter will eventually reach to an end, I cannot waste any more of my energy on this. I have new products to work on.
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My point of view is this : as creator, you sell an item and that’s all! You CAN’T pretend to have your logo on a pic if someone takes a pic of it. And if other items are credited and not yours, then sell it with a special licence and conditions. Sorry but Prometheuscreations is clear with his intentions : “However I do not wish to be associated with the Neurolab brand in any way”. Bloggers are free to write about what they want! After all, they bought the items.
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(EN)
Let things be clear and especially for you: irine!
Neurolab creates out of the mesh based on the RL, from Blueprint (technical drawings), photos or other 3D techniques (100% original Creation). I have 25 years of professional experience in this field! (Since 1991) and a few awards at Siggraph
You through against! you use the “LOW Poly” extract “stole” models in PC video games! Available on http://www.3dfreeforloser.com and other crap site!
No creations! I wonder if you can build a sphere!
(There’s a big difference with me anyway !! This guy is so stupid that do not understand the nuance!)
And to complete a little, when I go out with a laser eye, you go out an eye with laser!
When I leave a light bonsai, you go out a light bonsai
(Like other! Prometheus is not the only one … SHU MESH does exactly the same … they even created a group between them (Science Fiction Creators Coalition) ..to better copy me? hahaha)
secondlife:///app/group/1b4f10a4-6f1f-2606-4585-9e13052b9056/about
Not only are you stealing video games, resell at all ugly LOW POLY not worth 1LS! you copy me!
and you allow yourself to assert a copyright for a photo !! hahahahaha I dream!
This guy is a kid who does not care about the world and people scam !! ! and surely not a creator!
you are wasting time with stupid kids ….
Ok! I would not interfere anymore because I return to work, I have smartest things to do than this !!!
(sorry for my bad english)
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(FR)
Que les choses soit bien clair et surtout pour toi: irine!
Neurolab crée de toutes pièces les meshs inspiré du RL, à partir de Blueprint (plans techniques), photos, ou d’autres techniques 3D (100% original Creation). j’ai 25 ans d’expérience professionnel dans ce domaine! (since 1991) et quelques prix au Siggraph
Toi par contre! tu utilise les modèles “LOW Poly” extrait “volé” dans les jeux vidéos! Disponible sur http://www.3dfreeforloser.com et autres site de merde!
Aucune créations! je me demande même si tu sais construire une sphère!
(Il y une grande différence avec moi quand même!! Ce mec est tellement idiot qu’il ne comprends pas la nuance!)
Et pour compléter un peu, quand je sors un œil avec laser, tu sors un œil avec laser!
Quand je sors un bonsai lumineux, tu sors un bonsai lumineux!
(Tout comme d’autres! Prometheus n’est pas le seul… SHU MESH fait exactement pareil…ils ont même crée un groupe tout les 2 (Science Fiction Creators Coalition) ..pour pouvoir mieux me COPIER? hahaha)
secondlife:///app/group/1b4f10a4-6f1f-2606-4585-9e13052b9056/about
Non seulement tu vole les jeux vidéos, revends du LOW POLY tout moche qui ne vaut pas 1ls ! tu me copie!
et tu te permets de faire valoir un Copyright pour une photo !! hahahahaha je reve !
Ce mec est un gamin qui se fout du monde et arnaque les gens!! ! et surement pas un créateur!
vous perdez votre temps avec des gamins stupides….
Ok! je n’interviendrais plus car je retourne au travail, j’ai des choses plus intelligentes à faire que ça !!!
A bonne entendeur 😉
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Ono (Neurolab inc.)
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Dear Ono,
If you are a professional 3D designer, then I’m the pope.
Judging by the topology of your Final LOD4 modelof the ZTRONIC bike (aka the Tron Lightcycle) in your site, you have never created any game related model. If I was your employer you’d be fired on the spot if you brought this model to me. There is excessive waste of polygons in every single part of it. That would be what a modeller would call a High Polygon model that is used for normal map and Ambient occlusion baking and if you bring that into a game engine you don’t have a clue what you are doing. This is not a high LOD game asset. Not only this will cremate your machine, it is also near damn impossible to UV unwrap.
That model is about 90,000 triangles. A protagonist character in a AAA game title, up to DirectX 10, would have a budget of about 12,000 polygons if they were to be examined up close during gameplay. NPCs and secondary characters less that 8,000. Vehicles not even close to that.
Unless you just grabbed a low poly model of the tron bike from a site and just turbosmoothed it to make it look cool and try to prove that you made this (which I highly doubt), this product and creators like you are the reason that Second Life is a lagfest.
Also you claim that you have won multiple SIGGRAPH awards. I would be extremely careful with that statement. What awards did you win exactly? The Computer Graphics Achievement Award or the Digital Art Award? And what years? I’ve kept a close eye at SIGGRAPH awards and I’ve been actively involved with the community since early 2000 and I’m pretty sure that you are not one of them, since the only French award winner was Jean-Pierre Hébert in 2012 and he’s been in California since 2003.
As to who I am and what I do, I will let others speak for me on that. I don’t like tooting my own horn.
I would like to thank you however for breaking your silence and showing once again to me and maybe for the first time for others, the quality of your character.
Have a great night, and hopefully a new day will find you with better judgement.
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Ono, you’re dead wrong. I’ve known Irine for a good amount of time. I have witnessed her time and time again via Skype and screen sharing creating the things that she sells from scratch. She’s walked me through low poly modeling, high poly sculpting, normal map creation, rigging, texturing, and a number of other methods. These accusations that you have levied against her are libelous because they are untrue and they are intended to harm her business.
Also, she’s not a guy and she’s definitely not a kid. I’m not sure where you got that silliness from, but you should be corrected on it nonetheless. I’ve voiced with her on a number of occasions.
I’ve been aware for sometime now that Neurolab employs less than ethical tactics in an attempt to stifle competition. They use alts to spy on other businesses and their owners. They also use alts to attempt to persuade customers at other stores to come to theirs instead. They ban people from their own store like crazy because they are paranoid that others will employ the same tactics against them. Because Second Life is a largely anonymous model of a much freer market than those of the real world that we are familiar with, these tactics of yours seem to have had some certain degree of success. However, when and if virtual marketplaces become regulated, these types of shenanigans would run the risk of being subject to the judgment of civil courts via a lawsuit.
I am less than impressed, Ono, with that manner in which you run your business. It is capitalistic greed at its worst when ethics and morality are placed to the side in favor of monetary profit. And let’s not mince words, this gravy train has an end date. One day, Linden Labs will no longer support Second Life as we know it and the money will be gone. Then you will have to return to the real world to make a living and when you’re dealing with real people, I think they’ll be much less tolerant of your blatant abuse.
There are some products that you claim to make yourself that I find to be very well done, but, because of my principles and your lack thereof, I will not support anything that you do. I will not encourage my friends to either. My suggestion to you, Ono, is that if you care about preserving any semblance of integrity as a business owner or human being, that you abandon your consistent use of abusive tactics against your competition and simply focus on making a better product.
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Well, Becky, I spoke too soon. *sigh*
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Yep, time to close comments on this post (winks). Another brands/creators rivalry that will lead nowhere, and a blogger as intermediary.
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Second Life : Onyx Gecko Leaves Suicide Message For The SL Community
People he hated:
Irene Abbot – Were friends at first but went insane and threatened him about wearing neurolab products.
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Oh this is from Louis Beedit, the guy that got banned from my store after sticking with me acting like a friend for over a year and having me make him a shit ton of custom mesh items, and then me getting reports from people that he was IMing them when they came to my store and asking them to leave and go to Neurolabs. Good one 🙂
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Also if this guy did indeed kill himself, then I will fly using a rocket up my butt and go retrieve the Philae lander from comet 67P.
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So because I keep nearby chat logs for all intents and purposes, and because I was actually teaching some mesh building stuff to Louis Beedit, and because I don’t like any retarded lying waste of skin and oxygen, trying to mess with my reputation in such a way, feel free to view the following. Keep in mind it is public chat log from nearby chat in my store and disclosing it does not violate the Second Life Terms of Service.
http://pastebin.com/4j36nqQW
And then he is ejected and banned. No further contact since. The guy that came in that I have removed his name (XXXX) to save him from harassment trouble from the low life creeps of this cyber harassment party we are all experiencing here, IMed me informing me that he received messages from Louis Beedit telling him that my stuff is crap and that he should visit Neurolabs to get good products. I was skeptical at first but then I looked into his profile realised that Louis, my dear friend, that I was helping for over a year, that I built him free stuff for his homestead decoration, the guy that I was helping understand mesh and build a product at THAT VERY MOMENT had removed my store group and I got reports that he is talking shit about me. I didn’t threaten him, I didn’t say anything else to him, I didn’t even insult him. I just served him the nice warm ban he deserved.
I agree with the video comment, we do indeed have to protect people from Cyber bullying and harassment. Make guys like Louis Beedit, and the likes of him disappear into nothingness.
Have a great day and give my regards to your fake dead brother.
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